Vega G2 - Volume setting

Hi Xuanqian

I have the Vega G2. I’m auditioning various Pre/Power combinations.
I currently have the Croft Micro 25R>Series 7R Monos.
When driving the Power Amps direct, there’s no problem but when using the Croft Pre , I’m finding that I need to turn the Vega’s volume setting to under 50. What is the best setting for the Vega?
Can the output be reduced?
Thank you
David

Hi David,
since I myself have a Vega G2, I would like to answer you.
The Vega G2 has a superb analogue volume control and therefore there is no risk of quality loss if the volume control is set to 50.
This is an essential difference to devices with digital volume control. With a digital volume control, it is better if it is at least 80, better to 100.
Peter

Hi Peter
Thanks for that ! Since posting my question , I’ve done the A/Bs and find that the Vega direct to Power Amps quite wonderful !
I can’t see the inclusion of a separate Pre necessary !

As you both have the Vega G2, I am wondering if you care to share your impressions. Specifically I am wondering how the Vega G2 compares to similarly priced DACs on the market. Without the addition of the Aries or Leo, is the Vega on its own a class leader? I have read a number of reviews, but I always prefer hearing from someone who actually paid for a unit, spent some time with it, etc. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Also quite curious is the headphone output is any good.
I received this feedback from a Roon forum user who compared the Vega and Chord Hugo 2…
“Having tried each they are both very good, the G2 has a more ‘analog’ sound which although I like on my main system I was not so impressed with on headphones, the Hugo2 is very impressive and still my preference for headphone listening, as a dac connected in my main system the G2 is better but by a very small margin, certainly not enough to justify the cost of changing. So I can say with certainty the G2 will be going back to the dealer and the Hugo2 will be staying, as an alternative I would suggest looking at Stax SR-009’s as for the cost of the Auralic they offer much more, the blow the G2 and the Hugo2 away.
For reference my main system is a Microrendu feeding Holo Spring L3 dac, Copland power amp and Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution speakers, the Stax are connected via XLR to the Holo Spring dac. The Hugo2 was moved into this system for testing, the headphones were HiFi Man Edition X V2’s.”

Hi guerph
I’ve not heard the Hugo so I cannot comment ! I did audition the DAVE sometime ago and found it not to my liking.You possibly have answered the question yourself when stating the Vega is more “analog”
I wouldn’t have thought it would be difficult to find a Dealer who sells both and able to allow you to A/B both!
I did audition the Vega against some other high end DACs including Merging , T+A and Brinkmann , dCS etc. The stand alone Vega stood it’s ground with these higher costing products! The addition of the Leo takes the Vega to another level.
With previous DACs I always found some Digital Recording that just didn’t sound right. With the Vega, I’ve yet to find anything I dislike !
As for Headphones,I run the Meze Empyrean out of the Tron Antares Signature. My experience tells me that Amp/Headphone pairing is possibly more difficult than Amp/Speaker . The Meze/Tron hits my ‘sweet spot’ .The Meze also sounds very good out of the Vega. The Vega also drove the Susvaras well enough( until I sold them in as I preferred the Meze’s!)

Hi David:

The output level of VEGA G2 is 4.4V on both RCA and XLR. This is the level of a pre-amplifier rather than a source. A lot of pre-amplifier can not accept input signal at that high so it will clip the input of the pre-amplifier, that’s why you have to turn the volume of VEGA lower.

Since VEGA G2’s volume control is pure analog, you can safely run it to any level like 50 or 80.

Hi Xuanqian
Thanks for taking the time to answer!
I realise this is a ‘suck it and see’ scenario. I have!..and the results are excellent whatever configuration I try !!
Regards
David( a happy customer !!)

Hi Xuanqian!
What voltage out would volumesetting represent at:
25?
50?
75?

My preamp has a input sensitivity of 1,5 v
Into xlr.
Please let me know what volume would be preferalble for my preamp?

Best regards,
Ola

I dont have the mapping for now but I would say 1.5V is around 80

Hi again!
Since the software update that made it possible to turn of the volume and have settings like -6db or -12db ive been using that instead of the volumeknob to set a lesser voltage out from my Vega G2 into my preamp.
But since then ive also had some disstorsion issues that i never had before.
If i use this setting does the voltage get lower? or is it only when using the volumeknob?

Best regards

I noticed Xuanqian never addressed this question from peelbone and there are not a lot of specific details on the output level option.

I use Vega G2 and my integrated amp’s input impedance is 360 mV. Trying to understand which is best for SQ, LDS output trim -6db (keep Vega G2 at 100 volume) or lower Vega G2 volume (keep LDS output at 0).

I know when I asked if LDS output lowers output impedance to preamp, Xuanqian said it does not, without further explanation. Some specific detail from Xuanqian comparing LDS output setting to Vega G2 volume control would be much appreciated.

I see Xuanqian has been on the board addressing other questions. Sure would appreciate if Xuanqian can provide clarity on this question.

From what I understand you want your Dac set to 100 volume and let your preamp control it from there. Is that not working for you? Do you hear a difference either way? Usually the best way is what sounds best to your ears.

Not exactly Mimowery but appreciate your response. VEGA G2 has audio output of 4.8Vrms at 0dBFS, output impedance 50ohm, which is double the typical limit of preamp input impedance levels. As such, can cause problems for the preamp and/or clippings at low volume. This has been touched on via some of the below discussions but never adequately addressed by Auralic. Some clarity would be very helpful. If LDS output trim is the same as using volume knob (I am asking specifically in Vega G2 application), then we can use both options interchangeably. Perhaps LDS output trim of -6 db results in the typical signal that is best received by preamps. Just need some figures like what the audio output at with -6 trim (i.e. 2.0 Vrms) and at -12 trim.

https://community.auralic.com/t/vega-g2-volume-control/1568/3

Auralic vega output and attenuation

New Firmware 6.1

There is a release note at the usual place: https://support.auralic.com/hc/en-us/articles/360021410074-Firmware-

New Firmware 6.1

Auralic vega output and attenuation

My reply was in reference to VEGA G2 and, I assume, G1. There is actually setting for -6db and -12db. Don’t kn…

Hi:

I dont know if there is anything I need to explain, the web control interface has explanation of reduced output and it is very clear. 6dB and 12dB is exact number that will bring output level down.

1 Like

Hi Xuanqian,

Understand that db relates to sound pressure level but does -6 trim in output = trim in output impedance level to preamp?

Just trying to optimize the signal level going into preamp since 4.8Vrms is a very high input level for preamp and can result in very forward sound stage and brightness in highs, even at low volume, as well as preamp clipping.

Any translation of what -6db and -12 = for output impedance in Vrms?

Not sure if this will help, or even if I’m applying it correctly, but from this graph…

If you take the middle line (Voltage), +6dB equates to 2x and +12dB equates to 4x.

So if you use the graph “backwards” then, for 4.4Vrms, -6dB equates to 2.2Vrms and -12dB equates to 1.1Vrms (ie. half and quarter of the original).

Simon, this is very interesting indeed. Where did you find the correlation points between dB and Factor…assuming Factor here is Vrms? If these numbers correctly correlate with each other (x axis vs y axis), that would be the answer. It would be great for Auralic to confirm.

Somewhere in one of the posts, Xianqian had previously answered the output trim does not change the Vrms output impedance. If that is the case, the below graph would not be accurate since what Xianqian is saying with his response is that dB trim is not = reduced output impedance in Vrms.

This is source regarding the graph, just Googled anything on Vrms/dB.

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm

Can’t comment on “Vrms output impedance” statement, but I can say I’ve used both the -6dB and -12dB settings on my Altair G1 while leaving the volume at 100% (max), just to see what would happen, and by how much.

The result was each required the volume on my Pre to be turned up approx 10% each time, not much but if you are concerned about input overload it will make a difference.

I was initially concerned regarding what the G1 was putting out, owners manual stated 4.4 for both xlr and rca (hence the concern) but Xuanqian confirmed it was in fact 2.2 for both (a typo), so set everything back to max.

Mind you, I believe Naim Pre’s have a high overload threshold anyway, it’s just the restricted volume control moment with high output devices that cause slight difficulty.

Thanks Simon, that’s helpful reference.

I didn’t realize you have the Altair G1. I think we do share the same concern with the output impedance of 4.4 Vrms (4.8 Vrms for Vega G2 per specifications). The difference with our concerns, which is between Vega G2 and Altair G1, is Vega G2 has he analogue volume control which, once set, does not affect SQ. I think Altair volume control is digital so if you lower to anything less than 100, you will reduce SQ.

That is why I am trying to get clarification from Auralic on whether the LDS output trim also cuts output impedance like the volume knob on the Vega G2 without affecting SQ. Or if it is just a software reduction in volume which would be different than the analogue volume control and would affect SQ.

When Xuanqian replied that LDS output trim does not change output impedance level, that’s where I am confused and start to think it is digital/software controlled volume which affects SQ. If that is the case, I should stick to LDS output at 0 and control/lower output impedance by using Vega G2’s analogue volume control.

As well, if Auralic provided some sort of graph or curve similar to what you had provided, would be very helpful for many users.