G1 and DSD Files

Hi, I have recently upgraded from an aries to a G1. Previously on my aries, which was connected to an Mscaler (then Dave) via the optical, if I selected a DSD file, the aries would output DSD to the Mscaler (light on Mscaler confimred this) and the file would play no issues.

Since moving to the G1, for some reason I cannot get it to play the DSD in native format. If I try to play the file, there is no input detected on the MScaler, I have just silence. I now have to select DSDtoPCM conversion in the G1, this then outputs 88kHz PCM to the Mscaler.

Any ideas how I get the G1 to output the native DSD. Is there any difference between how the old aries outputted DSD compared to the G1?(appreciate that the optical will only support DSD 2.8Mhz)

Regards

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There’s no difference what i’ve noticed. Both my G1 and my older Femto deliver DSD over their digital outs, if told not to “convert DSD to PCM”. Can you post a screen shot of your Processor settings page?

Did you choose dop or native DSD ?

Is it even possible to transfer Native over a SPDIF interface? Shouldnt work, as it cannot include the necessary flags i the stream.

Yes it’s possible with AES or SPDIF :

https://www.dcsltd.co.uk/support/what-is-dop-dsd-over-pcm/

Thanks for the replies guys, I have tried both DOP and native, I think the mscaler only accepts dop. But neither work see screen shot below of settings.

Apologies here is expanded view

Can you try an another optical cable please ?

Same issue regardless of using free optical or my aq diamond.

I know what DoP is, but my hesitation was directed towards NativeDSD over SPDIF/AES-EBU! :slight_smile:

Anyways, @Burbster, you have a different DoP marker than what i use; 0x05/FA
Have you tried both settings for marker?

Hi, yes I have tried both, same issue with both, just silence, but shows as playing on ds app.

Perhaps obvious, but have you tried bypassing the Mscaler? (taking SPDIF directly to Dave)

Try using a usb cable and configure the G1 to USB. Then change to usb on the Chord.

There is no problem using usb. However, without wishing to start a debate, I find optical, at least in my setup, a superior connection in terms of sound quality. I suspect it is to do with the less than optimal galvanic isolation on the USB ports of the G1 and/or mscaler.

I understand. However I understand that there’s a limit of up to 24/196 over some alternative inputs.

Yes limit for optical is 96/24.

Normally you can do DSD and 24/192 with optical output like coaxial or AES.

If your current hardware limits optical to 24/96 then you are having hardware/cable issues.
My old Bluesound Vault have optical SPDIF out but cannot do 24/192 (which, by the way, is the bandwidth required for DSD64 DoP over SPDIF, or rather 24/176.4 to be precise) with my rather advanced optical cables such as Van Den Hullabaloos Optocoupler and AudioQuest Forest.
However, if I use my very old no-name optical it works flawlessly when transferring up to 24/192 signal.
I’d say, if you prefer your optical connection, go buy yourself some no-bs basic optical cables and verify that they can do 24/192, then you most certainly will have DSD64 DoP working also.

(I can get most of my shitty brand cables working by putting some pressure on the connector in either or both ends of the cable)

The listed limit for optical is 96/24. You are quite right in saying that cheaper cables will appear to run up to 196/24. I have exactly the same scenario in my setup. However, apparently this is well understood and is due to multiple timing errors of the same light arriving at different times on the cheaper fibre, this somehow tricks the receiver into thinking it is seeing the full 196/24 when in actual fact it is not. I did not believe this at first and for years stuck with the free cables. After reading more and more evidence though I decided to experiment. I resampled some of my196 stuff down to 96, then played the 196 through the cheap cable, and the same music but in the 96 sample rate via an expensive optical. Big difference!!! Try it, 96 via expensive optical sounded more detailed, notes appeared that I had not heard when I had supposedly been listening to the 196 file. Very strange I know, and to be perfectly honest I was very disappointed as I then had to purchase the more expensive optical which was on loan!!!

Alright, i cannot tell you what you hear or prefer. But regardless of your experiences a good optical cable should be able to transfer 24/192 between a host and receiver.
If it doesn’t, you will never be able to transfer DSD64 DoP over it…
And to me personally, optical is always the very last option, but i can see other people preferring the minor change in sound it generally induces.

So, basically i think you are speeding down a dead end. I’d look into USB or I2S solutions if you prefer high rez audio, but then again, you did get an M-scaler which invalidates the need for high rez sources in some ways.

(If you liked 24/96 better with the expensive cables, it might have been down to a more reliable transfer speed for the host/receiver)